In this bonus episode, you will hear Erica DeMarch interview me on her Balance Matters podcast. We not only discuss my TEDx talk Your Socks May Hold the Key to Aging Better. We also dive deep into the themes of the talk—exploring what else I would have shared if given more than 10 minutes to speak. In addition, we discuss the importance of body awareness in balance training along with exploring methods that can help with awareness through movement, like the Feldenkrais Method and yoga - powerful tools for improving balance and preventing falls.
Erica DeMarch, founder of Step and Connect and inventor of Balance Matters, interviews leaders in medicine, health, and wellness to give you up-to-date information re: balance tips, resources, and exercises to implement in your practice.
Erica's website: www.stepandconnect.com
The Balance Matters podcast: https://balancematters.buzzsprout.com/
[00:00:00] Erica: From Step and Connect, this is the Balance Matters podcast, a neurophysical therapist journey to make sense of balance. I am Erica DeMarch, your host, a physical therapist deeply passionate about teaching and training balance. After many interesting clinical discussions with colleagues and mentors over the years, I thought, wow, I need to share their expertise with others.
On this podcast, I interview leading minds in medicine, health, and wellness to give you up to date information on balance, new innovation, and translate the most current research into practical clinical examples that you could start implementing right away. This is the Balance Matters podcast.
Many of us assume that the risk of falling is an inevitable part of growing older. Carole Blueweiss, a doctor of physical therapy, explains why aging and frailty are not synonymous. She challenges us all to work on our balance now, so the last years of our lives don't have to be the worst. Dr. Carole Blueweiss is redefining aging by challenging some of its traditional views. With over 25 years of experience in physical therapy and as a certified geriatric specialist, she believes there are simple lifestyle choices that anyone can make, which have a strong impact on aging. Carole embraces holistic methods like the Feldenkrais Method and ABM NeuroMovement that focus on mind body interconnection and the importance of awareness to one's movement to combat the common misconception falling is just a byproduct of getting older.
Through storytelling on her podcast, Wisdom Shared, Carole explores themes with her guests about having ability versus disability. While aging may predispose us to lose some abilities that require balance, we have more control over this progression than we realize. We are honored to have Carole Blueweiss on our podcast today.
[00:02:13] Carole: Hey, Erica.
[00:02:15] Erica: Hi, Carole. I am really excited. Everyone, I have Dr. Carole Blueweiss with us today. And we're going to be talking, of course, about balance, but we've known each other, and I was just trying to think, I think 2006, I started working in New York. We worked at New York Presbyterian, Cornell. And we were physical therapists there and then continued to connect, even though I'm in Denver, for various things. And have some common goals, right, on fall prevention, balance training, and just increasing awareness of this topic.
[00:02:51] Carole: Yeah, you know, I have to say, Erica, to your audience, I always respected you a whole lot and I'll tell you exactly when that started. We were sitting together a lot. We worked in the gym. We worked with a lot of neurologically, impaired or involved people that came in, you know, for various reasons. A lot of people were working on their balance. I had a client, a private client, and she was very challenging. Do you remember?
[00:03:17] Erica: No, I'm trying to think of who it is.
[00:03:18] Carole: She was next to the Guggenheim Museum, she had an apartment there. She was a wonderful, wonderful, intellectual woman who was very very, had a lot of vitality in her. Her mind was very sharp. She still taught very interesting things to students who would actually come to her apartment to learn. She was very vital, but her body was kind of falling apart and her balance was terrible and her knees were terrible. And it came to a point where I needed some ideas, some fresh ideas.
And so I said, you know, let's have Erica come. And, you know, I think, you know, well, let's brainstorm all three of us. And, it was great to have your different perspective, you know, I'm a big proponent of teamwork and collaborating and getting ideas. You know, and so that was really very successful, actually.
So I, that was the first time I remember thinking, oh, this is great. You know, I learned some and, you know, I don't know if you learned anything, but at least, you know, you got to see a new patient. So that was one of my memories of us working together in New York.
[00:04:19] Erica: Well, one thing about, and we talked to, I talked about this on the last podcast interview of being able to collaborate with other therapists. And like one thing that, that I don't know if they still have that at that gym, but it was kind of some therapists that were orthopedic specialists and then some therapists that were more neuro, but really being able to talk to each other, work together or combined skill set, I thought was just really well done.
And we definitely were able to, like, understand what other therapists for learning. So today we're going to be talking about Feldenkrais, but you actually, I think even gave a lecture back then on Feldenkrais for one of the inservices that we had to give to each other. I'm like thinking of like all the people we worked with and like the different things that we were interested in and got to learn and share with each other, which was pretty cool.
[00:05:07] Carole: Yeah, so shout out to New York Presbyterian Hospital, Weill Cornell Medical Center. That's where we were. And, yeah, I think that was a great learning environment where, you know, because of the big gym area and everything that we could collaborate and talk and we had meetings and yeah, I did an inservice because while I was there, I was actually training, for my Feldenkrais, I don't know, it's not a licensed, but it's more than a certification.
I'd say it's a training that took like 3.5 years. And I was very fortunate that I could do it during the weekends and get it, you know, partly paid for by the hospital. And so that when I was finished, I was excited to share with everybody and, you know, it's very challenging. The Feldenkrais method is challenging to express in words because it's a kinesthetic modality. Or in physical therapy words, you know, it's a way to feel yourself differently and learn by feeling.
So it's hard to talk about it. You have to really, to really understand it, you have to get on the floor or listen to the instructions so that you can feel on yourself what it means to be standing and then maybe lifting your arm up, how that affects your foot and how that affects your knees and your hip joints and your rib cage and all kinds of things that you might not have been aware of. So the idea of bringing the awareness, it's just hard to explain in words, especially to a bunch of physical therapists who are trained very differently. So.
[00:06:48] Erica: But I think I think you did a good job and what we're definitely going to talk about this a little bit more because really about awareness on different levels is kind of what we're kind of talking about today.
But I think for one thing, just as we just are talking right now, made me think of if you're listening, like, and you have some colleagues, like, ask them like what their interests are and learn from them. I think it is really, we were able to do the inservices, but you'd be surprised at what people's backgrounds are. And then keep in touch because it's really cool to see kind of the people who sat next to you and you work day to day with kind of where they've gone or like who knew that I was gonna do this even. You know, you never know where those people are going to be going and how to continue to connect with them. So I think that's cool.
So on that, one thing you've done recently is a TED talk that I'm really proud of you of, you know, putting yourself out there of a very important topic, but your talk was called Your Socks May Hold the Key to Aging Better. And in just 2 months, you had over 250,000 views, which is super impressive. And a topic that is people want to hear about then, right? That is important. So I would love to know a little bit, and for the viewers of like why you wanted to even do this or like how did you get started with this and kind of your takeaways. And I'll be posting the link so everyone can listen to her TED talk. But like kind of what you learned from all this and what your viewers learned.
[00:08:18] Carole: Oh, how much time do we have? This is, there's so much to unpack. You know, I have a passion about balance because of my mom. First of all, she's 88 years old now, but for the past 10 years, and she's been a student, I mean, a student, a patient also at New York Presbyterian knows, all the therapists.
You've probably met her once. She's had a gait abnormality as we call it. I hate that word. And, you know, gait problems and balance problems for a long time and steadily getting worse. With, interestingly enough, not a neurological diagnosis. So I always thought that was really interesting and almost like, you know, if there is a God, they were like giving, you know, giving my mother something that was like, you know, even me as a PT was not going to have a straightforward way of helping her.
So over the years, just watching her struggle with her balance. And trying to figure out why and how to help her. And, you know, the frankly, you know, it's been difficult to see the decline in her balance. And so that's what brought me to start really feeling very passionate about the subject of balance. And I'm going to rewind a little bit. I, sort of shifting from being a practitioner to being more of an educator, writer, speaker about balance.
And in doing that, I took a 1-year class at Harvard University Medical School for people that want to write about medical topics for the general public. And my capstone was about balance and specifically balance as we get older, and it gave me the fantastic opportunity to do a dive into all the research out there about balance.
And it was so interesting because I was really, really able to just really think for myself and not just do the test that I'm told to do for the insurance company and come up with a number and then have the conclusion and then have a diagnosis like it, you know, I realized what I had always kind of felt intuitively that it's not black and white.
And yes, it's important to give people balance, strength, excuse me, strengthening exercises, different types of exercises. for the different body systems, but, you know, definitely strengthening and stretching flexibility,, all, you know, and physical therapists do a lot. They do vestibular therapy and all kinds of things, but it's all very segmented.
And what I found in the research was, that the best way to work with someone on their balance, there is no one perfect way. There's no, it's not just strengthening. It's not just anything. And I think most physical therapists with experience come to that, but you know, then you have to communicate that to the insurance companies. That's another thing.
But I just realized that the conclusions are that there is nothing conclusive about how to treat someone with a balance disorder. And Yes, you can say that certain people with certain neurological neurodegenerative diseases have certain things in common. But what often doesn't get considered is that that human being has also had a prior history and that plays a part in how they are managing their neurodegenerative disease, which often doesn't get considered so much only mostly because there's not a lot of time.
So it becomes, then we become so diagnostic and we become so linear about it. And, just, you know, we kind of rule out things that maybe are more creative or more intuitive to do with people because it's just not on, not something we learned in PT school. So all that to say is that I was very happy to see that it wasn't a linear problem and it wasn't straightforward. Because it never felt straightforward to me.
And certainly with my mom, it wasn't straightforward. So after learning a lot and talking to a lot of medical people too, you know, in my, my classroom all over the world, and getting feedback and so forth, I wrote a, you know, an article, that I would love to get published somewhere if you have any ideas, but in the meantime, in the meantime, I thought, well, why don't I, I thought a little, why don't I think of other ways I can get the knowledge that I learned out there because it was just, it felt so relevant to so much of what I was seeing even with other people, especially older people.
So I thought a TEDx talk would be a good idea to take what I learned from that research and create a talk that would maybe help people understand balance a little bit better. So that's how I got to doing a TED talk.
[00:13:40] Erica: And I love that. Cause like, just listening to your TED talk, the one thing that, and we talked about even prepping for your TED talk, you asked me some questions and we were talking, like, it is complex.
So to say it all in 10 minutes is really hard of, like, trying to convey, you know, this bigger idea. And I think, you know, it's not like, almost like an infocommercial. Like, I think somebody asked me once, if you can give three exercises, what would you do? You know, and I'm like, it's not that simple, right?
Like, we are all individual. There's all these different factors that we have to think about, but how to, the one part I think you you hit right on with this TED Talk is increasing that awareness because I think right now, at least in my opinion, or conversations with others, especially with aging people, and that someone just called me last week asking me about.
Hey, can you just tell me where I'm at and where I need to be? My friends keep telling me you're just getting older. Don't, that's why. And she's like, I don't like that answer, which I love that she wanted to know, you know, where am I for my balance? Where should I be? What can I be doing proactively to make it better?
So if we don't even have the awareness of what parts of our balance, like you were, you know, you gave the example of just trying a simple daily task of putting your sock on, right? If you're having trouble doing that, does that open your eyes of hey, what else can I be doing to improve this? This is something, I don't want to have a fall.
But that awareness piece of, you know, you dived into it a little bit with the sensory and the reactions of, you know, someone pushed you how that is. But if we can increase that awareness that balance isn't a one size fits all, you know, standing on one foot might get you better balance to stand on one foot. Does that translate to getting pushed and catch yourself? No, those are two different things that you need for different functions. So I think, you hit that really well. I'm hoping that people increase that awareness, but where do you take it from there? You know?
[00:15:39] Carole: Yeah, that's a great question. That's a great question. And, I mean, it sounds so cliche. I'm glad you asked because we did not practice this before. I have so many things to respond to it that you said in that question. One is that it was very interesting, the feedback that I received, in the comments and even, when was practicing on people, they were like, yeah, you know, it's okay, but you need to talk about how we can improve our balance.
Like you're not giving any suggestions. And, that was very, always very frustrating for me to hear because I did then have to say, well, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the. I know you want to hear that. But what I'm trying to do is to motivate you to find those answers for what you need.
Everyone is different. And you nailed it on the head. Like, it's standing on one leg does not mean the same thing for everybody if you can stand for 30 seconds. It's very individual and it's very function specific. So, I got those, a lot of that feedback. Of course, I got a lot of positive, you know, wonderful comments.
I also got a lot of people that really focused on the sock and they were annoyed, as if I was saying, all you have to do is put on your sock and you'll age well, you know, and also people saying, well, that's very dangerous. How dare you suggest that everybody should try to put on their socks standing on one leg? I work in a hospital and I've seen broken hips that way.
So it just was very interesting to me to hear how people heard my talk. I just listened to it again before talking to you here. And, what I at least try to do, and I only had 10 minutes, my strategy for talking about something so complicated in such a short amount of time was not to give advice, but merely to suggest that people have choices.
And to be aware of those choices, it was my goal. And I used the socks to make it a bit of some entertainment and to have a story. Of course, you know, TEDx talk has to have a bit of a, a bit of a formula, a way to engage the audience. So there's the storytelling, but the awareness part, what I was trying to do without really using that word awareness, it's like, what is awareness?
And you have to explain it. It's really hard 10 minutes just, but to show what I tried to do is show that, now that people may be here, that A, frailty is not synonymous with aging, just like your client said. To hear that, first of all, is empowering. And that's what the research says. I mean, that is well documented and so therefore why do people become frail and what can you do about it? So you don't become frail.
Well, that's not often talked about because in our profession, especially we see people after they have the problem. So there's no real proactive balance programs out there. And so one of the ways people can be proactive is to tune into themselves. And slow down and be more conscious of what they're doing or what they would need to do to do something successfully as opposed to doing it quickly, not being able to do it. So, therefore, doing the easier, quicker thing without any much thought going into it.
So I guess I'm suggesting like, if we can use our cognitive brains a little bit more in terms of movement and realize that our brain needs to be stimulated by thinking and being aware like that will affect our movement, which will then affect our balance, which gives us more control. I hope that makes sense.
[00:19:51] Erica: No, it definitely does. And I think that awareness piece and I think that's like the first step, right? If anything, if you don't think you have a problem, you're not going to do anything. So I think actually people seeking out or writing in the comments advice of what they could do is actually exciting that they want to do something, right?
Or if people are saying, I want actual steps of what I can do. I think it's that disconnect of saying, well, it's not just you need to know individually, just like if you were getting medication or something. I can't just say this is what you need to do. Exercise can be dosed and be really specific based on your needs.
And I think that's like our next, maybe that's your next TED talk, Carole, like, how can we be more specific of like what we're looking at? And I think that awareness of even, I don't know, I think of like, how much do we know our body movements? Of like, so like maybe even you really specialize and look at posture, right?
So how, if you are getting older and getting that flex posture, but you're not even aware that you are, how does that affect your balance? How does that look at your limits of stability and kind of letting that patient feel, look how much you can move at your ankles when you're standing tall versus leaning forward and like increasing that awareness in each of those resources for postural control.
I think that part would be so cool if we can have that as just an everyday. Everyone knows just like you're brushing your teeth. They use that example all the time. Like we kind of the doctors will look and say, hey, you have, you know, this one tooth. We're kind of just going to keep an eye on. We're a little worried. It might be a cavity, but we're not going to do anything about it versus, hey, you need to do something.
Like, if we can have some better protocols and the CDC, and I think a lot of, they're trying, they're trying, but the general public isn't there yet, in my opinion, of like being that proactive. So your talk, I think, and increasing that awareness of, hey, you know what, there's people out there that can help me. There's things I need to look at. I don't need to be here if I start working earlier. You know, we make changes in our forties already for our balance, which is crazy.
[00:21:52] Carole: I was going to say thirties. I mean, that in the research, it said thirties. I was shocked. And yeah, so, in terms of what you say, this is the paradigm shift that would have to take place, unfortunately, because it's just like the difference between it's not, it's not exactly the same analogy, but it's like there is Eastern medicine and the way, let's say people who do acupuncture think about the body and meridians and very differently than, you know, a Western medicine doctor, and they will give different remedies to based on their findings with their paradigm.
And, for example, with the Feldenkrais method, it's a sensorial teaching method is what it is. It's not even a healing method. It's a teaching method and in order to learn, people have to feel. And it takes time and it takes slowing down and it's not really, very in to go slowly and to just do these very minute, paying attention, little movements. You know, it's really hard, I think, for most people.
So you have to take a leap of faith that there's a very good reason and you can learn so much about yourself by doing something that is uncomfortable because it's so slow and so seemingly easy, but the reason why it's slow and seemingly easy, it's so, there's a purpose for that, that it's, that you don't tense your muscles so that you can actually feel how you were when you were, let's say, a toddler before you were in school, before you had pressures, how you moved, because we've all become so habitualized to having stress in our lives, to sitting in chairs, to all kinds of things that have happened to our bodies unconsciously.
And to get back to some kind of normal rhythm, it means going back a little bit and slowing down and and feeling certain things. And that's the brilliance of the Feldenkrais method is that it brings attention to things that you wouldn't necessarily be aware of. And it can be as simple as shifting your weight from foot to foot and having someone notice how that, does it feel, you know, you ask a lot of questions. Does it feel different, you know, questions they would never think to ask themselves and then let's say they get on the floor where there's no gravity and they do some movements. Let's say they are lying on their back and they're reaching for their heels on one side.
So their arm is somewhat lengthening on one side, but the torso is shortening and the other, the torso on the other side is lengthening and all these things are happening and you know, they're happening. But the person is just thinking about getting their foot to the heel. And then you ask them, what's, what is your head doing?
And then they start to learn how the foot and the hip and the torso and the head are related to each other, but no words are exchanged. It's just the feeling of that. So then they get up again, they shift their weight and it's a whole different feeling and they have more control of themselves.
And there's other cues there that I, of course, I left out, but like, you know, you could ask if someone's looking at the horizon, is their head moving when they shift their weight? Is there another way, can, if your head is moving, can you not move your head? If you don't move your head, what has to move? And so then you, you find a different way to do this exact same thing. And all of a sudden now you have another strategy.
[00:25:21] Erica: But not even telling them what to do.
[00:25:23] Carole: Exactly.
[00:25:24] Erica: Move this way. So where did this actually method start? Like where was it started for like a specific, you know, like I know certain ones, certain movements, even like Pilates, right, started with dancing, like how, where did this method?
[00:25:38] Carole: Well, to be specific, it started with this man who I think relevantly was a mechanical engineer by training. He was a judo master. So a lot of martial arts training and mechanical engineering. And he was set to be a very famous scientist. He worked with Marie Curie and he was just a brilliant guy, but he had a soccer injury in his knees.
He had one very bad knee and they wanted to operate and he, he want that because or maybe it wasn't even operable. And so he was, basically the doctors told him, you're just going to have to be in a wheelchair eventually, there's nothing we can do. And what happened was he started, you know, he was just doing his things and he started to realize that he started to walk differently.
And his other leg was hurting, his other knee, and when his other knee was hurting, his bad knee got better, and that got him thinking, and that got him onto this whole thing, well, why did that happen? And questioning, questioning, questioning, questioning, and realizing that the body adapts.
[00:26:50] Erica: So starting with some pain management and biomechanics and kind of figuring out what was, what was causing one thing versus the other. And this actually, I talked to you a little bit about this and for the listeners and in December, we're going to dive into this a little bit more, but I've been meeting with a lot of mechanical engineers and head of robotics, and we all do need to be talking to each other because all of our expertise and how each of our brains work differently.
Like, I think we just go so much further. So, like, we're introducing today, this approach, and this approach is just another toolbox to use with your patients, to use with your clients, or if you are, you're not into this approach and you feel your client can benefit from it, then you find a practitioner in your area that can have like, so I think it's just important to know what's out there, because I don't think everyone knows all these different approaches and methods that could be really beneficial, you know.
[00:27:41] Carole: Or you look for someone who does integrative therapies. Like it was Gail, right, that you interviewed before me. And she does a great job of integrating. She's taken so many certifications and courses and I believe, you know, without her talking about Feldenkrais, I think she does incorporate a lot of the Feldenkrais method in her approach.
And so you don't have to necessarily look for someone who just does the Feldenkrais method, which also is like, you know, in my opinion, no one person, no one technique works for everybody anyway. So you really maybe have to see even a few PTs or a few different a Pilates person, a yoga person. I mean, and that's okay.
And I don't think people have that permission. Now, of course there's the insurance issues, but I think that's the truth of the matter. Like, and yeah, like I went once to an osteopath who was a mechanical engineer as well, and he, the way he thought was very mechanical engineering as an osteopath.
And it was so interesting and I learned so much, you know, and we're all trying to, you know, do the same thing, help people who have, you know, pain or movement disorder and help them, you know, change their, become just more efficient in their movement or smoother, or just so that they don't have pain, or they can do the things they want to do.
So, yeah, I think that not living in a bubble is a good thing. And that, yeah, the more, you know, interdependence there is even with OTs and PTs. I mean, to divide the body into arms and legs, which happens less now, but it still happens that, you know, we dividing and then to divide, also, like still in the hospitals, the orthopedic section with the neurological section.
To me, that always seemed like, you know, it should, you have the bones and you have the muscles and you have the nervous system and how can you separate them? And then the Feldenkrais method is very much about integrating, not even integrating, but saying there is no difference between the brain and the body.
There are no difference between thoughts and feelings and movement. They are not just related, they are one. And I think Feldenkrais is famous for saying, without movement, there is no life. So it's just one. And somehow they got separated in Western medicine.
[00:30:09] Erica: I like that. Without movement, that is a, there is life.
[00:30:14] Carole: There is no life.
[00:30:15] Erica: There's no life. Sorry, without movement, there's no life. Yeah, that is a, And I think, on that, like, now you're making me think a little bit, you know, of just the people that were, I'm even thinking of my daughter right now, right? So my daughter has a fracture in her foot and is loves soccer, like is and cried this morning on how her life revolves around soccer.
She plays with all the boys at lunch and plays soccer. So all the things that she does, this movement, and I'm like, you have to stop moving so much because you're not healing it. Because she's not staying off of her foot. But this like movement piece, I think that there is not, there's other dimensions of it, and I'm thinking of this, and I don't know if I'm translating my thoughts well right now, but I'm thinking in 2 different directions.
So that social piece, you know, of even seeing my daughter that she can't do certain things with her friends because she, that was part of her life, that movement. But also the flip side. So I had another client. I think some of you might know that are listening. I developed an intergenerational program and a post member of the program reached out to me last week and looking for the program.
He missed his balance buddy because he was depressed and it got him out of the house to meet with his buddy and exercise. And he told me, I'm really depressed and see myself declining in my balance because I'm just not doing as much. I'm not getting out. And he's dealing with some other things with his personal life that's causing some of this depression, more of a sick spouse, things like that.
But I think we need to look both directions. So if I didn't know that he had a sick spouse and that he's doing all this other stuff that's taking that mental part, you know, of then how do you address that and tell him to move more? How do you get him to motivate? We need to look in both directions. So just that quote just made me think kind of both of like, it's a life of like, how do we engage, you know, another client, she can't sit at a table very much. She has pain for all this orthopedic issues with Parkinson's, but part of her life is, you know, being able to engage with friends at social times at dinner.
And if she can't do that, what is? So I think we kind of have to look a little bit beyond that. And how do we improve? So kind of just made me think a little bit of looking at the big picture of our everyday life and what's important to each of us. And how do we get that person? At least that's what my goal is for a lot of my patients.
[00:32:40] Carole: Yeah, I think that you, you know, it's like, It makes me think, yeah, you want to get that person who can't sit at the table because it's uncomfortable in a dining room chair to go into her another room, find a way to change the chair that she does like, find out what she does like, where she can sit, where we can get a table for her that that goes to her the way she sits and then get the people who sit at the table to maybe come to her either after the meal or before or during some meals.
And. You know, think like that so that she's feeling more a part of her community and therefore has more energy to then go to the music program later that evening or take a walk in the hallway that, but we can't bill for that. So it's like an impossible situation. That's one reason I'm a little shifting out of physical therapy because there's so many handcuffs, you know, the more your physical therapist, the more you realize, you know, all the potential of what we can do for people, but also you realize all the limitations. And I mean, I'm guessing that's one reason why you stepped out of your box and you created what I think is genius with your, you know, your, the clicking and the sounds and the sensory. And, you know, it's just one of the, your entrepreneurial endeavors, you know, to, as another way to manage how people can improve.
You know, you did exactly what, you know, most people don't have the time to do that, but you went ahead and you, you thought there was something lacking and sure enough, of course there is, you know, with the whole auditory system and, you know, that should be, you should be getting donations and you should be getting, you know, people should be like, you know, coming to you and saying, how can we build your gym and how can we make these accessible to everybody, every, every physical therapy practice should have it. Absolutely. But it's not how it works.
[00:34:42] Erica: Yeah. And I think the biggest thing is like increasing that, you know, my whole concept was increasing that awareness. And how do we get the most out of a program for somebody? Right? Because I think even in your TED talk, you talked about how your mom wanted to be challenged more, right?
Like, how do we find that right dose for all our clients to be able to exercise but find different ways to do it? So I think like, yeah, I'm hoping today that really people kind of got out of this interview is number one, like exactly what you said is, you know, I want a different route. You want a different route.
I think after, you know, we've both been therapists for over 20 years, like, there's options for our expertise to either collaborate with engineers, do different things, to be speakers, educators. We have so much knowledge that I don't think is shared enough in the general public of some of the things that we could really improve just people's well being.
So I would love definitely to get some of, you know, the course that you took in Harvard, different ways that people, if they are looking for other avenues to show that, that there are ways you have to take the work to, to kind of figure out how to get to those points, if that's your interest, but I'm also hoping people are also looking at just other methods, you know, so courses to take, different things to kind of or even if you're not interested in understanding that method of taking knowing that there are other people that are experts in this that you can refer or to know for your clients.
I'm always looking for resources for all my clients and we didn't get into it today, but there's tons. I start, you know, I'm a complete nerd. I'm looking at research and looked at all the research for the Feldenkrais method for balance, and it's well researched and had some really great outcomes better than just the conventional.
So I think if it's, you know, still research is trying to figure out, you know, who are the outliers, like, who are the responders, right? So I think as clinicians, you kind of know what your patients are going to respond to more if this is their approach or they're going to follow through with it. So, if it is like, I hope even one listener, you know, find somebody to say and help somebody for this, because this, even today, I just found out a dance studio in Denver even does Feldenkrais, so it's integrated with dancing.
So there's some cool things. So, I would love to kind of ask you a little bit to end on if there's somebody who's interested in doing TED talks, or if there's somebody who's interested in like learning different, like, what would be number one? That will be my first question. Then I have another one is like, what guidance would you give to first practitioners out there who maybe want to kind of branch out a little bit?
[00:37:36] Carole: Well, yeah, the first way I branched out is with a podcast. And that was directly related to actually my Feldenkrais training where I, and I did an a Anat Baniel method training NeuroMovement where I was meeting a lot of parents of children who had disabilities and were seeking out this treatment because actually physical therapy and occupational therapy and speech therapy were not helping them after a while, or they had just very, very complicated prognoses, let's say, and they were given no hope.
And they found that this kind of working with the children gave improvements. Now, maybe there were small improvements, but at least there was hope and there's and there were changes. Okay. And that's a great example of why we should, I don't know, refer out or understand, not be so skeptical.
Okay. Yes. They don't have the science training these practitioners, but some of them are better than me having had the science because it's the skills are not about the intellectual skills, it's really ability to connect with the children or with the people you're with. And that's, so what I'm trying to say is when I was with them, I, there's all these stories and I thought it was really important that other parents hear those stories of alternative complementary, things, or that's not a very sophisticated word, but that these parents were, having their children exposed to, that some worked, some didn't, some worked for others that worked, didn't work for others and all that kind of combination, but that other parents should hear or the people should hear what's out there. And you don't hear that from your doctor because the doctors know what the doctors know.
The physical therapists know what the physical therapists know and no one. So just, so I went into the podcast business, so to speak, to try to help people learn what is out there and then the TEDx talk as well. Like if you're interested in doing a TEDx talk, it's really about having a subject matter that you're passionate about and thinking of a different way to express it. It's the idea of sharing an idea.
It's it's not about showing something or doing what you do actually you have to be kind of inspiring the audience to think in a different way is, is what a TEDx talk does, but I'm sure there's many therapists out there that do that. And I just want to give a shout out to, if people are interested in the Feldenkrais method, and, you can, you can go online and get all these great lessons and all kinds of, ways to get to do these lessons for yourself or help other people.
It's called the Feldenkrais Project and you just put it in the show notes. It's feldenkraisproject.com and you can find all these lessons. Some are discussions. It's Feldenkrais for everyone basically.
[00:40:38] Erica: So, not for clinicians, you know.
[00:40:41] Carole: It's for the public. It's for both. It's yes for both. And if you wanted to join its classes, so there's nothing about, there are certain things that you might not be interested in because you're not a practitioner, but most of it is interesting to everybody because it's basically getting you on the floor and doing and feeling it. And once you do it, you know, If you have the patience, it's a gold mine of information for yourself.
And, you know, I just want to say one more thing. It's really about, for me, I see all the kids, you know, on social media now and all these devices and their postures, you know, being this, you know, bent over, flex posture. And I had a client once who was almost 90 degrees to the floor, looking down, and remarkably, she had no pain, but obviously her balance, was affected, and it wasn't comfortable for her, and, you know, she was in her late 80s, then she was in her 90s, and she lived to be a long time, like over 99, But she said to me, once she said, if I had only known then what I know now, so her lesson to me was, we figured out this was her saying, you know, Carole, I sat at a desk so many hours doing my bills and my papers.
And I didn't realize that I was bent over until I was so bent over I couldn't straighten up. And someone said that it's like the frog in the boiling water, you know, you don't, the frog will stay in the water cause it's so small, the increment of change, and that was part of what I wanted my TEDx talk and my message to be too, is that it doesn't have, it feels like it happens all of a sudden, like all of a sudden your back went out, but no, it started a long time ago. So let's learn what feelings you should be paying attention to and don't ignore them about your own body and that we are much more intelligent than we give ourselves credit for.
We can do things that we don't need someone else to help us with. If we just listen inside to ourselves and not always be looking to the news and the social media. And what other people did, like, just listen to yourself. Listen, listen.
[00:43:06] Erica: I think I'm taking that to another level. Being honest with yourself, because I think listening, I hear it. My mom and dad are in a 55 and up communities. I have talked to my parents a lot about every time they're in their book club or something, somebody else knew fell in their like little circle, you know, and they always are like, oh, it was just stupid. I just did this. I wasn't being smart. Like, they always, there's always like a little bit of an excuse of, well, I just should have done this.
I, you know, and I think if we can be honest with ourselves that these are little warning signs. So maybe like, yeah, you should have caught yourself or maybe you didn't move something or whatever it is. But I think it is also knowing there could be these small changes that happen, but also to be honest about these small changes of saying like, what can I do before it becomes a big change now? You know.
[00:43:59] Carole: Exactly. Like, like address it, like address it earlier and not, don't be ashamed about it. And also almost like, you know, how some people before they're having a total knee replacement will get prehab. I mean, it's, you know, almost like, like prehab for getting older. I mean, I do believe that there's so much that's so predictable.
That's what I learned in all my studies, you know, it's just so predictable. So if something's predictable, I think we learned in third grade or fourth grade science. I mean, if you know something's going to happen, then, you know, look, look at that and try to prevent.
[00:44:34] Erica: I think the next part is now, how do we make it? I was just on a call before this, how do we make it fun and want us to do it to prevent it? Right? So now we know there's something that we need to be doing. The next is like, well, what are the options out there that make us do this as a habit for a lifelong? You know, not just like these yo yo diets. I'm gonna exercise or do this and then stop. How do we do something?
[00:44:58] Carole: Well, I think that. Yeah, I think that that I was able to say in my TED talk, whether anyone heard it or not, or no, because I probably talk fast and it was just one sentence. But nevertheless, I mean, one of the conclusions that I had for people is, don't avoid the stairs, go up those stairs, go on your hikes, be weary, not weary, but be aware that, well, first of all, that's all exercise.
I mean, we know that's exercise, but that's exercise for your balance. system. So if you need, if you go always on the easiest hike with no challenge, maybe it's okay. Maybe, maybe convince yourself, go with a friend on something that that's a little harder because you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of the challenge with improving balance is that you need a certain amount of challenge and there's a safety factor.
But so there has to be this kind of a sweet spot where you're not always doing what's easy because that's how it'll decline. You at least want to maintain, but because as we get older, physiologically things change, we have to take that into consideration and probably up our movement and do what you like. Do do the things you like.
[00:46:14] Erica: I love it. And I, on that point, and we'll have to go in a moment, but the, I think of living in two, so New York City being there, right? And some of my clients in New York and what they enjoyed and wanted to, like, I still remember one client telling me that she did not want to go, nothing against anybody who lives in Connecticut listening, but she did not want to visit her children in Connecticut because it was boring compared to the shows and stuff she was going to do in New York City.
So her goal was to be able to go up and down all the stairs without holding on to be able to go to the theater. Be able to walk across the street fast enough before the light, you know, and versus my Colorado clients, you know, there's still theater here in Denver, but a lot of them are outdoorsy, you know, so, and this is, I'm being very general right now, but the, my recent client, you know, wanted to go on this certain hike and I'm going hiking this weekend with my family and we're going to a lake and there's one guy who grew up and consistency, he shows us all. He's in his late seventies and can hike everywhere and just go and be okay. And he was saying that the lady's house at the cabin that they bought was in her late eighties and still showing and going up all these different paths that he was showing us. And, but she did it every day, you know, so I think it's, it's pretty amazing what our bodies can do if we are consistent with it and keep at it. And then, you know, gradually keep making those like intensities. So, you know, if it's going to the theater or hiking like just like you said, find something you love. So.
[00:47:47] Carole: Yeah, and that's and I just want to add this like it and it doesn't mean like, I think people assume a lot, a lot. It doesn't mean that these people like it was it was easy. Like, they feel like they're did in their 20s doing that same hike. More likely than not, they were more out of breath, or they had to stop more often, or they had more aches and pains afterwards and they took care of them, they did what they had to do, but it didn't stop them, they kept, they kept doing it, and I think in our society there's this, you know, now you don't have to flush the toilet anymore, you don't have to push the thing for soap, you know, everything is, that you need your muscles for, not everything, but you know, is being taken away, like comfort, is like the new great thing.
But actually in our world, comfort is like the new cancer, you know, like you, you end up not doing things for yourself. And then what you were given muscles in order to use them, not to rest them all the time.
[00:48:49] Erica: Oh, no, I agree. Well, is there any other we've talked about a lot of different things. And I hope this just inspired some people to if you're a client just of what you want to kind of do and tell your therapist or tell your practitioners like what your goal is, hey, I want to hike this or do this and they can develop a plan. And if there's a practitioner, I'm hoping that they, you know, are just thinking a little outside of the box of, you know, their career path or also just recommendations. But is there any leaving thoughts that you had, especially just what your new experience with the TED talk?
[00:49:25] Carole: Yeah, I mean, I would encourage people. If I were to do another TED talk, I would do it about all the kinds of things, ways you can give yourself what we call therapy by cleaning your house. I mean, that's not, that's boring and it's a chore. So that's a bad example. But, you know, the things that are everyday activities, they can be used for a lot of good things. To understand what pain is, and what good pain is, and what bad pain is. And to understand where the balance, fine line is between challenge and too much challenge, and too little challenge.
And those things could be probably figured out by most people. And we're talking about before they had the fall, before, you know, they had the problem. But so, it's, it, the idea is that people are proactive, I use that word a lot, but, and give themselves much more credit than they do, and they think they have to rush to the physical therapist, and then, and then they stop thinking themselves, they just do what the physical therapist said, but maybe they knew intuitively something, and I think that's true so much for most people than not, and you don't have to go to the gym, if you don't like the gym, don't go to the gym, you know, go in a kayak, you know, if you like to hike, hike, if you like to go to the theater, walk to the theater, I mean, you know, people need to be empowered to trust themselves and to be encouraged to move and yes, and then therapists themselves need to get to know their clients, get to understand what is interesting for them, because they're not going to be coming to physical therapy forever.
And usually we don't eradicate the problem they have, so it's a lot of education and if we can give them a lot of moral support and confidence, I think that's part that should be part of our job.
[00:51:34] Erica: Oh, I love it. Yeah, you keep making me think of just stories like, even this morning. So my client was exactly what you said. Our whole entire session was to get her to feel more comfortable and safe to go to a dancing class with her friends. And she went last night dancing and she like but, you know, if that could be a lifelong thing, which then after therapy, she just goes dancing every week and now is having fun and being active, but we need to get them there. So her her whole entire exercise program was around getting her safe to go dancing, you know, so I think we just need to think how do we get people to do that stuff that they continue to do things they like, so.
[00:52:10] Carole: Absolutely. Yeah, and that's, that's the real healing. I mean, that's, it's getting people to do what they love to do, really. And to be able to do it in a lot, like, it's like that mind body thing, you know, we separated and, you know, people will say, yeah, we're sort of psychologists, but you know what, you know, it should never, we should, we should have that ability to say, like, you know, look at a person for their who they are, and it's it's so much more fun. I think to treat to treat in that paradigm, like, to not think that we have to fix the one problem that they supposedly have. But to look at the whole picture, you know, it's more fun.
[00:52:48] Erica: I agree 100 percent. So, thank you so much for joining me today. I enjoyed our conversation. Brought back definitely memories from New York. And I will definitely put a bunch of references and some resources for everybody.
And then, if there's any other questions, people can reach out. So thank you again.
[00:53:09] Carole: Yeah. Thanks, Erica. This was fun.
[00:53:20] Erica: If you liked this episode, I hope you would consider subscribing to the Balance Matters podcast on our website and iTunes. Share it with your friends, colleagues, and show some love on social media. For new podcasts like mine, those reviews are everything. To stay connected with us, follow Step and Connect on social media and visit our website stepandconnect.com to learn more about our educational courses, resources, and products. I hope you learned something today and will join me on this journey to make sense of balance.